Thursday 19 March 2020

Here are some FAQ's from Citizen re your ECO DRIVE.





Here are some FAQ's from Citizen re your ECO DRIVE.

BTW here is also a review of the watch shown here

Outside unfiltered late afternoon winer sun (as long as possible) Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m ECO DRIVE Promaster saturation diver's watch.


FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS: CITIZEN ECO-DRIVE
What is Eco-Drive?
Citizen Eco-Drive watches use the simplest, yet most technically advanced power generating and storage system in the Watch Manufacturing Industry. A Solar conversion panel and energy cell are the power provider for these Quartz Watches. Eco-Drive’s ability to use light from any source to generate electrical power means that the supply is limitless and free. The absence of any added complex power generating machinery that would require additional upkeep is another big advantage.
What is a solar panel?
The Eco-Drive watch uses a microns thin disc of amorphous Silicon under the dial to convert light energy into electrical energy through the photovoltaic process. The electrical energy is then stored in a special energy storage cell . The charging is done in a more efficient manner than was ever before thought possible. Because of this newly developed technology, it is now practical to use a wide variety of attractive dials.
How is energy stored in my Eco-Drive?
A special Eco-Drive energy storage cell is used to store the electricity from the converted light energy. The high quality of the cell precludes it from being affected from the regular charge/discharge cycle as with an ordinary battery. With normal care and exposure to light, the owner can be assured of a lifetime of reliable and trouble free power. As an added benefit to the environment, the energy cell contains none of the chemicals used in ordinary watch batteries.
Why does my instruction booklet refer to a “Secondary Battery” if my Eco-Drive doesn’t have a battery?
The Energy Cell is referred to as a “secondary battery” since the primary power is from light that is converted to electricity. There is really only one energy storage cell in your Eco-Drive watch. Unlike Eco- Drive watches, most quartz watches use a silver oxide battery technically referred to as a primary power source or battery which is used until depleted and then discarded.
How long will the energy storage cell last in my watch?
The rechargeable cell featured in Eco Drive watches is a highly specialized unit. Many times, it is incorrectly referred to as a “capacitor”. This cell will last up to 40 years. Certainly charge capacity will diminish over
time, but even after 20 years, these specialized cells are rated to retain 80% of their original capacity. It is highly unusual for these cells to fail. Most commonly, if an Eco Drive is stopping it is more indicative of a low charge. If it is running slow, it may indicate it is time to have the movement serviced.
What does it mean when the second hand on my watch jumps two seconds at a time?
It means that the reserve power is getting low and the energy cell needs to be fully recharged by expos- ing it to light for a period of time outlined in your owner’s manual. This may also occur after fully recharging your watch after a complete discharge of the energy cell. If you have fully charged your watch and the second hand continues to move in two second intervals, you need to do an all reset of the watch. For simple analog models, pull the crown out to the time setting position for 30 seconds, then return the crown to the closed position next to the case, then set the time. For multi-function models, please refer to your owners manual.
How can I tell if the watch is getting enough light?
In normal use, the watch displays the time and the seconds hand moves in 1-second intervals. For mod- els that do not feature a seconds hand, the minute hand will move 1/3 of a minute every 20-seconds. A very important feature of Eco-Drive is the Low Charge Warning Mode which as a result of low energy cell voltage causes the second hand to jump two seconds at a time or the minute hand will move in 1-minute increments(while still keeping correct time). Additionally on models that have enhanced features such as a Chronograph, these features may not operate while in a low charge state.
When the low charge feature is activated, your watch should be fully charged by exposing it to bright light as outlined in recharging guidelines in your instruction manual and in the technical support
section of our website.

What does it mean when my second hand jumps alternately in one then two-second intervals?
It means that your watch has stopped and it needs to be charged up and set to the correct time. See Time Reset Advisory following.
Why does my watch appear to have lost time, even though it is still running?
A second important feature, Time Reset Advisory, warns that the watch has stopped completely and then been exposed to enough light to start running again. The time shown would likely be incorrect and need to be reset after recharging the watch sufficiently. To indicate this warning, the sweep second hand movement
alternates between two, one second jumps and a two second jump (hitch movement) with the following two exceptions: the Eco-Drive two hand models and the Eco-Drive Chronograph.
How do I get my watch to return to normal operation?
After the watch has completely stopped and been fully recharged by exposure to bright light, you may notice the watch continues an erratic operation. This is known as the Time Reset Warning (hitch movement) mode until one or the other of two things happen:
First, if the watch is set to the correct time after partial recharging, the hitch movement will change to a two step movement indicating that more charging is needed. While charging is continued, the watch will keep correct time and after sufficient charging, will go back to the regular one second step by itself.
Second, if the watch is not set until after it is charged up to a sufficient level where the circuit signals the watch to start the one second step again, it will stay in the Time Reset Advisory (hitch) mode. However, after it has reached the above charge level, and the time on the watch is set, it will go back to the normal one second step movement.
The amount of charging time, under varying light conditions, to go from a stopped watch to a one second step is shown in each instruction book.
When the watch has received the charging time recommended in its instruction book, the all reset has been performed and the time has been set, the irregular movement of the hands will stop The sweep second hand on the Three Hand models and on the Chronograph will then return to the one second step and the minute hand on the Two Hand models will return to the normal 1/3 minute stepping operation. Reminder: the re- charging time, shown in each instruction book will differ depending on the caliber number.
The ALL RESET procedure varies by model. For simple analog models, pull the crown out to the time setting position, leave for 30 seconds, then return to the closed position next to the case. For multifunction and perpetual calendar models, refer to your owners manual for appropriate procedures.
What is the quick start feature?
Many Eco-Drive watches are equipped with a Quick Start Feature. This feature activates after your watch has become completely discharged then exposed to light sufficient for charging. It takes only several seconds of exposure to bright light to start it running. The instant the watch starts running, it enters into the Time Reset Advisory mode. This is indicated by the irregular movement of the second or minute hand (described previously under the Time Reset Advisory section). Be sure to fully charge your watch as outlined in your instruction booklet otherwise your watch may stop once removed from the light. Once your watch has been completely charged, be sure to perform the ‘all reset’ and set the time (and other features your watch may have) to restore regular operation.
How long will my watch run after it is fully charged?
Your watch is designed to run continuously and will do so if it is regularly exposed to bright light. Your watch uses very little energy and that is easily replenished during normal use. If your watch is put away where no light is available to it while in a fully charged state, depending on the model, it will run for from 45 days to 5 years (for models with power save feature). Most models have a 180 day power reserve.
Why doesn’t my watch seem to be charging?
The predominant reason for failure to charge is that the watch is not getting sufficient light. Influencing this are the short cloudy days and long nights of winter. It is advisable that the watch be used normally, but exposed to bright light on a regular basis in order to enjoy its carefree use.
How can I be sure that the watch is not faulty?
If your watch is an Eco Drive model, be sure to ensure it is fully charged. Follow the guidelines in the instruction manual that came with your watch to fully recharge, perform the “all reset” and set the correct time on your watch. After that is done, if the watch still does not operate normally, you should send your watch to your nearest Authorised Service Centre for review. If you are located in the United States, you should send it to our Torrance location.
NOTE: The vast majority of the Eco-Drive watches returned to us for service only need recharging to restore proper operation. Be sure to try fully charging your watch and perform the all reset before sending for service.
What should I do if I had the energy cell replaced after my watch stopped, but it still doesn’t run?
An occasional repair request received by our Repair Department is due to Eco-Drive watches that have had ordinary silver oxide batteries substituted for the original Eco- Drive energy cell. In some instances, the movements have been damaged as the special cells which feature soldered contacts have been pried out of the movement causing physical damage. In almost every case, all that was needed was a full recharge
of the watch.
A warning label, placed on the inside case back of each Eco-Drive model, states, “do not put other than the energy cell designated” and the part number for the rechargeable energy cell, 295-XX, appears prominently on the movement cover. Additionally, the correct energy cell may feature a spot welded gold coloured connecting strap which is necessary to make contact with the circuit of the watch. There is no such connector on a silver oxide substitute so no connection can be made to the circuit, consequently the watch will not run. In some watches, the original energy cell has been pried out, damaging the circuit and displacing parts, which
may result in the need to replace the entire movement.
As replacement of the original energy cell is not the result of a manufacturing defect, correction is not covered by the warranty. We recommend that you send your timepiece to your nearest Authorised Service Centre for review and estimation for the cost of correcting this issue.
Is it possible to damage my Eco-Drive watch with excessive heat during charging?
Although not a frequently occurring problem, the Repair Department receives Eco-Drive watches which are damaged due to excessive heat during recharging. Warning is given in the instruction books not to subject the watch to conditions where the temperature may exceed 140 degrees Fahrenheit. Examples given are: charging the watch on the dashboard of a car, using an incandescent lamp (regular light bulb) closer than 20” or using a Halogen lamp.
How can I recharge my Eco-Drive in a safe manner?
Once your watch has been fully charged, exposing it daily to ambient light is sufficient to keep it charged but not sufficient for full charging from a full depletion of power. If you find your watch needs supplemental charging, it can be safely charged with a fluorescent desk lamp by placing the watch with the dial (face) up and within about 8 inches or an incandescent lamp (regular light bulb) no closer than 20 inches. Be sure to refer to your owners manual for recharge times for your model. If your watch has stopped completely or is in a low charge state, we do not recommend this type of light as it can take a very long period of exposure to fully charge your watch. The best type of light for this purpose is the sun.
Never use a halogen or flood type of lamp since the heat generated by these can cause certain components to become deformed and unusable (this type of damage is not covered by the warranty.) If your watch has become fully discharged, the most efficient and the quickest is in direct bright sunlight (not a window sill as glass windows filter light frequencies and never on the dashboard of a car.)
How can you help me recharge my Eco-Drive?
Eco-Drive timepieces feature a variety of functions and specifications. For optimal performance, we recommend the watch be exposed to light each and every day. In most instances, your watch has stopped or appears to operate erratically it is simply in need of full recharging. Charge rates and run times
vary by model.

If the watch has lost complete power, be sure to perform the ALL RESET and 0- POSITION PROCEDURE (if applicable) as outlined in your instruction manual before setting the time.

This gives the watch a “starting” point after losing power. If this is not done, the watch may continue to operate in an irregular fashion, although fully charged.
Many of the Eco-Drive watches incorporate special features, such as a low charge warning, power save function or quick start. Features specific to your model are outlined in your instruction booklet.
What is the Low Charge Warning?
Low charge warnings are visible clues that your timepiece is in need of a full recharge. These warnings include irregular movement of the second or minute hand and special positioning of indicator hands on some of the more complicated pieces. Your instruction manual will outline the specific low charge warning
for your timepiece.

What is the Power Save Feature?
Some Eco Drive models incorporate a special power save function to conserve power when the watch is not exposed to light sufficient for charging. This enables the watch to have extended run times from a
single full charge.

Power Save features activate automatically when the watch has sufficient power stored for normal operation but is not receiving light sufficient for charging. Although certain functions “shut down”, the correct time is kept internally.
What is the Quick Start feature?
Some models incorporate a quick start feature in which although not charged, the watch will start running after only a few seconds of exposure to light. Be sure to note that the watch is in need of a full charge as it does not have sufficient power stored to maintain normal operation when not exposed to light
sufficient for charging. 




Now here is my super detailed review of the Citizen PROMASTER MARINE ECO DRIVE BN 0176-08E 300M DIVER.



Saturday 14 March 2020

Old Citizen 100m with Radioactive markers!



Vintage (well not really unless you call a 30 year old watch vintage) Citizen 281 9280 100m watch.


150 counts per second with a scintillation counter. Ok it's a sensitive counter but that's quite a bit over background levels.
Citizen 100m watch with Radioactive markers!

How to keep your ECO DRIVE COOL** whilst charging in full sun*

How to keep your ECO DRIVE COOL** whilst charging in full sun*

Even 20cm from a 125W CFL lamp, it will take many hours for a full charge.

Here is a quick video of a small computer fan rigged up to blow cooler air onto my watch whilst it charges in full sunlight! 
Note that for interior lighting, your ECO DRVE will never become fully charged. I believe I obtained 20 plus years from my 7878 movement ECO DRIVE by making sure the watch saw full sunlight on my wrist until I had satisfied the approximate charging times as stated by Citizen. Then to make sure it was not covered by my sleeve. This is how I wear a watch anyway.

Remembering the main cause of returning ECO DRIVE watches to some service centres globally is because people have simply cooked their batteries. Abide by the temperature ranges set in the charging guidelines!





*As long as the ambient air is cool!

** No responsibility taken for over heating your watch and frying your battery!
Late afternoon (full) winter sun, isn't going to cook your watch.



Correct charging will help to get you best possible longevity from your ECO DRIVE!


Tuesday 10 March 2020

Banned from WATCHUSEEK over some posts about this watch! The Citizen BN 0176-08E




Well it seems I must have offended someone over at WATCHUSEEK forum about a couple of posts about the Citizen BN0176-08E because after less than 10 posts I received what appears to be an automated message telling me I have been banned forever LOL! Interesting, as I broke none of their guidelines but then when one reads the fine print of the many guidelines, it says it's all on the discretion of the moderators etc. then, that basically means one is allowed to post (like on any forum I guess) as long as some moderator isn't offended in reality, not the people who actually come there. If this was the case then there are Zero apologies forthcoming from me, as I tell it like it is and won't banter to someones ego just to "hang out" in some clicky group or give any forum bullies the chance to exercise their bravado hiding behind anonymity of the internet.

Anyway if you want to read some cool facts and some field based opinions about this watch and not just hearsay then this is the blog for you. 


And the offending video LOL



And here another blog about the great monster of a watch, the Citizen BN 0176-08E PROMASTER







Monday 9 March 2020

Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m Promaster Dive Watch Review

Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m PROMASTER ECO DRIVE 300m Dive Watch Review
And some tips about keeping your diving watch running smoothly. Plus factual info on DLC


Gear Junkies read on!


The Citizen BN 0176-08E PROMASTER 300m saturation diver's watch sits second from Citizen's top professional model  the 1000m 
BN7020-09E.



I have been wearing an ECO DRIVE Citizen watch now for over 20 years of non stop running, no secondhand 2 second skipping movements (meaning it had a low power issue), accurate time keeping. That is my qualifying statement to you, reassuring you about what you are to read, is based upon real 24/7 usage, meaning: diving, surfing, snorkelling; caving and anything else that water is a necessary part of having fun.
Citizen BN 0176-08E PROMASTER ECO DRIVE 300m saturation diver's watch, meant to be used!


So now I have a new ECO DRIVE watch from the PROMASTER line up in the MARINE section of the 3 main PROMASTER series watches (see previous blog).

Why did I move to this watch? Why not just the current ECO DRIVE 200m? After all, the 200m served me well (as did my SEIKO 100m and 200m dive watches did and do.


Simply if you use a watch to go diving then one really appreciates a bezel which is easy to turn wearing thick dive gloves or any sort of dive gloves. The huge notches in the bezel of the BN 0176-08E are dead easy to get your wet fingers or wet gloves on and turn. I don't want to be cocking around on the surface with everyone waiting to descend because I can't (or someone else) can not set their watch quickly and efficiently! Yes it does make a difference (if you are a diver then you will appreciate a timely and ordered descent).



Distinctive Citizen  PROMASTER logo on the screw in crown, big chunky gaps in the DLC coated bezel allow easy finger gripping.




Rugged appearance for a rugged watch design. It features easy to see Fluorescent orange minute and second hands




Easy to read in low light, although one has to look twice sometime until getting used to the hour hand resembling the hour makers in shape and size.
The face markers are made from a new luminous material designated Luminescence A, which can be charged by light in a matter of seconds and retains a long emission.
To be honest I saw no difference (as in charging time required or duration of emission and intensity of emission over time) between SEIKO's renown LUMIBRITE phosphor and this one Citizen are using. 



The watch is anti-magnetic and will resist magnetic fields of 4800 A/M



In the International System of UnitsH, magnetic field strength, is measured in the SI base units of ampere per meter

What does this mean in practical terms in relation to strong magnets?

4800A/M is approximately 60 gauss! This is the ISO 764 standard. In other words and small Neodymium magnet, approximately 10mm in diameter and 3 mm thick is going to destroy your watch if placed close by! The approximate gauss rating is about 3600 gauss! So if you put one of these tiny magnets on the back of your watch to "see what happens" then the result will probably be NOT MUCH, as in the watch will stop working! Not worth the experiment I reckon. 
Aesthetics about the Citizen BN0176-08E



This current 2020 model (according to the Japanese Citizen site) stainless steel (probably L316) and the bezel surface treated with a DLC coating via Citizen's proprietary PVD.
Let's talk a little about this and what it means in terms of functionality.

DLC stands for "Diamond Like Carbon".  Citizen Holdings Co. Ltd have many patents when it comes to surface treatments.  


Inventor:(Yukio Miya) assignee:(Citizen Watch Co Ltd). The DLC film/coatings they apply to their products can have a hardness of 1800 on the Vickers hardness scale. (HV: Vickers hardness, micro tester; load 5 grams, retention time 10 seconds)

DLC was first demonstrated by S. AISENBERG & R. CHABOT, “Ion-Beam Deposition of Thin Films of Diamond like Carbon,” J. Appl. Phys., 42, 7 (1971) 2953

If you really want to understand what DLC is then read the above paper! It was actually discovered by accident!

The bottom diagram illustrates typical DLC devices for creating the films. 

(Image taken from History and Applications of Diamond-Like Carbon Manufacturing Processes




DLC coatings improve corrosion resistance, reduce frictional forces and increase surface hardness. Is it a gimmick? Short answer is NO!


What it (DLC) does do, is to provide a contrasting color tone to their "decorative article" that is resistant to wear and tear, unlike, simply painting a metallic part or applying a less wear resistant coating/film.  It the under surface of the bezel also bears a DLC film then it will also help reduce frictional forces. Unfortunately I was not able to ascertain this latter information from Citizen, nor did I want to purposefully pull apart my new watch for obvious reasons!


For example: I own a SEIKO Prospex 200m air diving watch, a gift from my aged mother of 88. I've: swam; dived, surfed and jumped into rivers etc with this watch which until recently was on my wrist 24/7 (my son has it now, as he is more active for an automatic movement) BUT the bezel (turned many times in the salt water; is losing it's color! Why? Well, simply because it is a painted bezel and paint is essentially "plastic" and plastic wears!

Note the painted numbers and bezel colours are already wearing off on my SEIKO Prospex 200m diver (ok I'll paint it myself later) but the watch is only a year or so old. One thing which annoys me is that watch companies churn out diving watches with the aim of satisfying the armchair diver, who will never give the watch a beating and hence these things like i point out here, will never wear but using it for diving is another matter. Eg sand abrasion in the water etc.


The process of applying a DLC coating is not cheap.  I remember using a plasma coater for work many many times over  9.5 year period in a particular job (friends always wanted me to turn their silver jewellery into gold jewellery LOL!). Vacuums, high voltages, ultra pure gases etc. are all part of the process, not to mention specialist targets; this costs money. I suspect that's why the BN 0177-05E full DLC is 10,000 yen more expensive than the BN 0176-08E and also why Citizen USA has decided to pull this latter model, maybe not enough sales as it is really no different in function than the BN 0176-08E but more expensive, who knows?



Best practices for charging your Citizen BN 0176-08E


Showing the reflection of an LED desk lamp (no I certainly do not use such lamps (or any lamps for that matter to charge my ECO DRIVE watches, including this one). Real coconut palms  and accompanying sunshine are recommended!



Firstly any woosy light such as a LED desk lamp just isn't going to cut it unless you have loads of time on your hands. The only benefit is that you won't "cook" your watch by using an LED lamp. This is of course if you are in a country which lacks ample sunshine! A funny story: (well I reckon it is). 20 odd years ago when I was working as a scientist in the United Kingdom, I decided to purchase my first ECO DRIVE watch. I had seen a PhD student wearing one in another lab and liked the design and his positive words about it. In fact several people were sporting this model in different variations at work. Upon my delight in receiving it, I proceeded to show it to my colleagues. The response from one of them: "Are you stupid? You bought a solar powered watch in the UK? Don't you know there is no sun here?" Anyway, I thought it was funny (at the time!)

SO in order to get the most from your ECO DRIVE, give it the full sun treatment whenever possible and measure your 11 hours to full charge, as it will be near impossible to determine how much light it had received (if any) before you got it. Whilst it may not show the 2 second movement of the second hand, this does not mean it has a full charge of 6 months duration.

Full afternoon sun is better than full morning to midday sun. The latter is best but you must be able to keep the watch body cool! I prefer to charge them not behind a window if possible, for example: on an open balcony (where someone can't "lift" your watch too!)

However, realistically, if one doesn't regularly inhabit the sun and really wants to charge their ECO DRIVE without "hurting it" one could do like this maniac does.

Put their ECO DRVE under a 125W CFL grow light! about 20cm away. The watch placed ontop of a very large chunk of aluminium as a heat sink.


Under a 125 W CFL bulb approximately 20cm away from the actual globe itself to avoid excess heating. ie under 37C

Citizen BN 0176-08E placed atop of a "spare chunk of T8082 aluminium" which just happened to be lying around the house LOL!

Leave it there all day, at least 12 hours! It's no where near as intense as sunlight but way more intense than a desk lamp.



How does Citizen Do it? (You will not find this info in any manual: The following information was taken by me from a live presentation by  Mr Jay Spring of Citizen USA (back in  2nd August 2003)


Citizen actually charge their Eco drive watches using a bank of GE full spectrum fluorescent tubes, where the watches are place about 3 inches away from 13,000 LUX of light (this is the amount of light seen on a cloudy day). The ambient temperature does not exceed 27C (82F). Note this temperature. This is 10 C below wrist temperature.


The expected life of the Eco Drive Energy Cell is approximately 40 years and even after 20 years the expected performance is only down 20% to 80% capacity ie the cell will still maintain 80% of it's charge! The energy cell can take over 500 cycles from dead to fully charged.

Does the Eco Drive battery have a memory problem?

No.
Partial charge and discharge does not matter.

At the time of this presentation the general battery chemistry Citizen was using was Manganese Titanium Lithium Ion.

Low Charge Indicator

All Eco drives feature a low charge indicator. This model, the Citizen BN 0176-08E the second hand will jump at 2 second intervals indicating the battery requires charging immediately.


Charging Efficiency

Dark coloured dial watches such as the BN 0176-08E will charge faster than a lighter coloured dial. The reason being that a dark coloured dial can be made thinner in terms of colour and hence transmit more light to the solar cell. The coloured dial, the plastic thickness must be greater to hide the watches movement underneath.

For more information on recharging please see the FAQ section I published from citizen shown here

After a full recharge from a flat battery the watch MUST BE RESET see the above link on how to do this.

End of 2003 presentation




A killer of (ALL) Dive watches

As with all dive watches, the biggest (realistic) killer of them is SAND ingression whilst diving and or swimming and surfing. The more nooks and crannies in the design the more chance of sand ingression and eventually wearing out the mechanism, or worse still wearing out the body (the demise of my bezel on a previous 7878 ECO DRIVE). 



Like I said, FULL SUN IS BEST used to charge your watch but let let it overheat!


How can I tell if my ECO DRIVE BN 0176-08E has a full charge? 

Answer: You can't! BUT what you can do, is after receiving it (you have no idea of the charging conditions of the seller, if any at all, excepting if you receive the watch and the second hand is skipping 2 seconds) you can expose it (recording the hours of course) to full sunlight for a total of at least 11 hours (dependent upon the intensity (season) of the sun, for most places.
In reality that's going to be about 12 days of full sun because you aren't going to leave the watch probably more than an hour each day in full sun, you'd be forever moving it to stay in full sun! That's my experience with charging solar watches.

Well with the exception of the interface between watch crystal and bezel, all sites of possible ingression are placed horizontally. To compare with something else I will refer once again to my recent SEIKO PROSPEX 200m baby tuna. It has 2 regions: the crystal bezel interface plus the region where the shroud comes in very close to the bezel. Enough space to catch sand particles in the water and or sand whipped up in the air. 
Wash immediately in fresh running water , watch tilted vertically into the stream of water! Try not to dive in super murky water (ok if it is diving for work, then you can probably claim on damaged watches!).

Be patient, don't try to wrench your sticky bezel, otherwise you will destroy the internal ratchet one way mechanism. I did this on a early Citizen I have (pity as it had seen much shark action and has a lot of sentimental value to me- but no longer good for diving).





(BIG) Wrist Presence?





I'm the wrong person to ask the following:

"I really like this watch but it might be a bit big for my wrist, what do you reckon?"


Well, I've been wearing diving watches on my wrist/s for a long time, in fact since a teenager, that was over 35 years ago, so I'd say I'm pretty used to the relative "chunky" appearance/feel/look; or as they say today, "wrist presence" of the diving watch. This particular model, the Citizen BN 0176-08E is ever so slightly bigger (ok maybe a bit of an exaggeration in terms of my other watches bar the PROSPEX 200m ) in thickness than any of my previous dive watches. 





My first proper dive watch was the SEIKO slim line model quartz tsunami dive watch and it served me very well on many of my scuba diving adventures. I simply gave up on getting battery changes every 3 years and the regular pressure tests, they far surpassed the cost of the watch over time! Same fate was for another Citizen 100m dive watch, saw lots of UW action but battery changes and pressure tests killed it in the end. It just wasn't cost effective. Next came my first ECO DRIVE which lasted 20 years straight (still going actually as I already stated above) and then a year ago I got a SEIKO baby tuna 4R36 200m dive watch. Now my son has it but NOW, this baby, the Citizen BN-0176-08E. So do I think it's too big to wear on a daily basis? Well no! I should say I'm a 24/7 watch wearer and if i'm not wearing a watch I feel kinda naked LOL! My real job demands a watch be worn as phones are out and let's face it, a real man wears a watch LOL! I didn't buy this current watch to look at per se but to wear a a dive watch and use as a rugged time keeping instrument. The BN 176-08E is a lot different in size to the ginormous "clock" of a watch, the current Citizen 1000m diving "machine" LOL. That watch is strictly for diving only and lots of it.

Anyway check out my (long) video review of the Citizen BN 0176-08E Promaster 300 dive watch here.


Cool Observations Regarding Charging of this Citizen ECO DRIVE the BN0176-08E . 11/3/2020

 I noticed that whilst my watch second hand is not skipping every 2 seconds, which would indicate a low battery power and need for charging; It is not landing exactly on the second markers, I noticed this too once in about twenty years of wearing my other ECO DRIVE and I have read where people say the movement is not accurate on the second markers. however, after much careful observations, I note that If I expose the watch to full MORNING sunlight, the second hand aligns perfectly to the second markers. This to me means that the watch is still in need of a proper charging in the sun. Nothing to worry about as the watch is keeping brilliant time.
This makes total sense as I know that even for a CASIO ProTrek Solar digital watch, it needs a good 15 hours of full strength summer sunlight in order to fully charge the battery from a low power state to the "H" indicator on the watch, meaning a full battery charge.






See the video review here BushCampingTools





Thursday 5 March 2020

The Citizen BN0176-08E PROMASTER ECO-DRIVE 300m Saturation Diver's Watch Comprehensive Review




Citizen BN0176-08E PROMASTER ECO-DRIVE 300m Professional Diver's Watch:
Comprehensive Review

 by BushCampingTools







I thought it was fitting to do a intensive review of this watch as it is the 30th anniversary of the PROMASTER range from Citizen Watches.
This watch was released/announced at Basel World in 2016 and is still being manufactured.


Speaking of Bassel World, , the 2020 conference cancelled due to the stupid panic over the Corona virus, see here:
Which is just crazy as.

The Citizen  BN 0176-08E is the second current model (the top model is the super huge 1000m beast) in Citizen's "MARINE" section within the PROMASTER range of outdoor watches. The other two sections are "LAND" and "SKY". The sister/brother model of the BN 0176-08E is the BN 0177-05E (a fully DLC coated model but sporting Day Glo Green (Fluorescent green) minute hand and second markers (see below).

In this article I will be only reviewing the Citizen BN 0176-08E model  but briefly speak about some other relevant models in this discussion/review.

See it here at the manufacturer's web site:


web site image here



Citizen Promaster Diver Black Dial caliber eco-

drive E168 quartz .


THE Citizen BN0176-08E PROMASTER ECO-DRIVE 300m Saturation Diver's Watch  IS STILL LISTED AS A 2020 CURRENT MODEL ON THE JAPANESE CITIZEN WATCH SITE (WITH A RETAIL LIST PRICE OF 100,000¥)

That's about $912 USD retail list price.


Outer box marked made in the USA





Inner "hard box" marked Made in China!

So I guess the watch is assembled in China????? to be sold in America, who knows?


This is a "hard to get model". Outside of Japan it seems to be sold as quickly as they are listed on various internet sites around the globe (excepting the official Citizen watch sites).
There are two distinct models within this actual watch model:

One carries the words "Japan Movt." and the caliber designation on the watch face E168 and the case back. The other, there are no markings of caliber or where the movement is made, except on the case back.
Case back: Note the two apposing arrows marked upon the case (base of band). These arrows indicate the direction of pin removal for this watch. The BN series does not use regular watch pins to secure the band/bracelet but instead these pins are friction fitted. The arrow indicates the direction that the pin travels to be removed. Why on earth Citizen did this, who knows? This is my only beef about this watch design. Maybe it was just not possible to build such a "monster" watch, have all the indestructibility associated with it and have some woosy bracelet pins fitted, who knows as I said?

I note that on the Japanese website, one can find no markings upon the watch face. I read somewhere that the watch face markings mean that the watch was intended for the USA market (only?). Anyway the sister/brother model of the BN0176-08E is the following:

BN0177-05E

Screen shot of a current 2020 300m Helium escape valve PROMASTER ECO-DRIVE watch.(this model now discontinued according to the USA Citizen site- but NOT the BN 0176-08E watch I review here).

This particular model sports a fully DLC (Diamond Like Carbon) coated body and the increased price reflects this, or does it? As that's ten thousand yen more!! 10,000円!, . Also as one can see the minute and second hands are fluorescent lime green. BTW this is an easy color to see at depth ie the "day glow green" ie fluorescent green, speaking from experience. Although now I wonder at what depth the fluorescent orange would disappear? I should be able to simulate this as a little experiment, if we assume that the shorter wavelengths penetrate the depths much better than the longer wavelengths (such as red). The USA Citizen site lists this model as being "discontinued" such a shame really!
But maybe it's the added cost of a full DLC coating? Afterall this model is identical time keeping wise to the watch on review here, the Citizen BN 0176-08E.



Simulated Visibility Experiment at Depth


We tested the bright yellow markers on the SEIKO PROSPEX 200M Air Diver's watch with the following wavelengths:
Violet
Blue 

Yellow and Fluorescent Orange markers What do they look like at depth? (daylight illumination)
Extreme Wavelength Experimental Results:


SEIKO Violet illumination
SEIKO Closeup Violet illumination
SEIKO Blue wavelength illumination


And now the Citizen BN0176-08E PROMASTER 300m Saturation diver's watch.


Violet Illumination 




Blue wavelength illumination



As you can see the  Fluorescent Orange markers appear to be a bit more contrasty than the Seiko's yellow markers. No surprises here as the Citizen BN 0176-08E is deigned go deeper and hence more blue wavelength penetration in clear water. Plus fluorescent colours are obviously fluorescing under blue light!

The Citizen BN 0176-08E (and the Citizen BN 0177-05E) has much more style without lacking the indestructibility value than the old ECOZILLA.! The Ecozilla BTW is only available for sale outside of Japan!

The Citizen BN-0176-08E, the 300m Saturation divers watch is a HARDCORE TOOL!!
As the writing says, PROFESSIONAL DIVER'S



This is a kick ass dive watch. It's a MAN's watch. Did I just say that? YES I did, its REAL MAN'S watch!

Ok, I've never dived deeper than 30 odd metres (100ft pls), so at 10 X the depth rating and maybe, just maybe one day I'll do some saturation diving (for research of course)- I am a marine biologist-past life actually by training so that old Helium escape valve might come in handy so I don't blowup my watch!  


How long does the battery last in an ECO DRIVE that has seen proper charging???

I'm a big fan of the ECO DRIVE. After all, I've owned a 200M ECO-drive dive watch (Citizen 7878 movement/caliber) 


Citizen 200m Diver's watch (missing the bezel because the mechanism simply wore out over 20 odd years of rotation for various sports, diving included-from sand and silt mostly from diving and surfing). The Citizen 7878 caliber is still going strong and keeping great time although the date mechanism seems to be a bit off? So clearly the Lithium Titanium batteries can go the distance!



for almost 20 years and it's still working despite wearing out the Bezel ring mechanism-lost it in the surf of all things! . It has long since proven it's waterproofness and toughness: caving and diving; climbing; surfing; fishing and kayaking etc etc. Now since the Citizen BN0176-08E looks like a mega tough version of my previous ECO DRIVE then I can't see why it will not be able to handle the pace.
Crown of the Citizen BN 0176-08E is at the 4'oclock position, therefore unobtrusive, doesn't restrict wrist movement.
Even wearing diving gloves




Ok lets break down the features of this watch!
Table taken from the Japanese Citizen site.

As the above specifications indicate the BN 0176-08E features hacking for the second hand. The watch has a 6 month power reserve on full charge and the second hand moves every two seconds to indicate a low battery charge. You can not over charge this watch.


A bezel which can be easily turned even wearing (thick) dive gloves!

Wearing dive gloves, no problems turning the chunky bezel on the Citizen BN 0176-08E  PROMASTER  300 Helium saturation diver's watch.



The case thickness is listed as 16.7mm and here you can see what I measured. Certainly social media sites listing it as 18mm and above are somewhat ridiculous and i have no idea of where they got their figures from, probably copied them from other erroneous sites. However, here on Hardcore Knives and tools for wilderness camping, you will get the facts, not hear say!


Yep 16.13mm is close enough to 16.7mm. I suggest this discrepancy is due to the fact i did not measure to the top of the case back. The fact is the BN0176-08E case thickness is no where near 18mm plus as reported elsewhere on other forum sites. 




Mineral crystal watch glass. How thick is it?

Well some say 6mm thick but whatever it is (Citizen do not openly list this specification). I have asked Citizen but I got no reply to that question and many others. Citizen are not renowned for after market sales service/customer service according to many social media blogs/Forums etc.


The Bezel

Coated bezel (DLC coating, that's Diamond Like Carbon).
In other words a PVD (Physical Vapor Deposition) coating that adds some superficial hardness and scratch resistance to the Aluminium surface of the bezel. good idea for the DLC coating as this region will see a lot of use and it will help to slow down wear from abrasion (sand, silt, dirt in the water).
One way rotating bezel features a surface coating of DLC, that's "Diamond-Like Carbon" via a PVD process. Not only does it look cool but it is functional as well. DLC coatings work very well to help protect surfaces from light abrasive forces and corrosion. Note easily read BIG minute markers.



Case forged (probably) Stainless steel construction.


Super bright chunky luminous markers


Helium escape valve (ISO 6425)  to prevent damage from expanding 
helium during saturation diving decompression. 
Helium escape valve to allow He gas to escape without damaging the watch

Solar Powered; no need to replace a battery  as I said.

Inside is a Titanium Lithium rechargeable battery.

ECO Drive Movement E168, with date at the 4pm position (date not shown in this picture)


This is what it looks like


Generic Citizen E168 movement Image courtesy of Suppaparts






The Bracelet


The urethane rubber bracelet is great. It has good flexibility and the right amount of "Tackiness" in order to provide a good secure attachment to one's wrist over a wet or dry suit. There is no way the band can come out of the two retaining loops (a common occurrence for many "rubber dive bands" when subjected to harsh movements/rubbing against diving objects and or even clothing! Especially if the end of the strap is subjected to a direct "push" against the end. 
Rubber watch strap two strap retainers (only one shown and this one closest to the buckle is retained via two cut away sections in the band. This is a good design feature as it prevents these things from moving and hence not working properly.


Some, I note on the social media, absolutely detest this band because of it's tackiness but I say this is absolute rubbish because those people by their own admission are not using the watch for diving (of any sort) except to wear the watch as some kind of "would be if I could be diver!", that is, until someone asks them the question they are most scared of: "Are you a diver"?  said interested girl (who BTW was a diver).
"UUUUHHH, ah.... well, actually I'm not"- he says as he shrinks into corner of room at party and looses girl's attention forever!
 This is a watch to wear not to be taking on and off to show off or to be swapping out watches. It's tool and a watch to be worn 24-7!
That 247!

Ok I'm a bit tough here, as dive watches make for great super rough and tumble time pieces and one doesn't need to be a diver.....BUT at least a: surfer; rock fisherman (they always get washed in the drink!); snorkel diver (for abalone, scallops etc); caver, or some activity that gets one wet and it's action stations, but certainly NOT for the office unless you carry that credibility, IMHO! Forget the "cuffs business" if you are a diver then "cuffs it is"! Who says you can't wear a dive watch with a suit! Heck I did, and still do! 



What happens if you don't like the bracelet that comes with the Citizen BN0176-08E? Well there are many aftermarket manufacturers that provide adaptors to fit just about any other band on the market; for example: SUPPAPARTS
See here for the BN series of watches

They look like this:


SUPPAPARTS makes adaptors for the BN series watches from Citizen-no they are not paying me to advertise them, I just found them via an internet trawl. (Image courtesy of SUPPAPARTS)


The Citizen BN 0176-08E is a "lug-less" watch, where the supplied band is specially moulded to provide a rigid support next to the watch case. Special pins which are held in place by split spring steel tubes. What's with this design? Well since Citizen Japan neglected to answer my questions about this watch for the blog. Maybe if I called them then that would have been a little harder to do as I've never encountered anything like this when living in Japan. But I reckon it's a lug-less design because there is no chance that the lugs could get caught p in something. After all, this is a watch meant to be worn for work and work under the water, since there really isn't such a thing as "recreational saturation diving"


But wait there's more........!

Urethane is a great material for watch bands, it possesses a high tensile strength, resistant to many chemicals and extremely resistant to fatigue, fungal attack and of course tear resistance. In short an ideal material for a watch band. 


OK, ok Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m diving watch is an ideal outdoor enthusiasts watch, simple, easy to read anywhere and waterproof beyond reproach (without the bulk of the 1000m model-and cost!).





Actually, a funny story (I reckon) was when I started this corporate job, the knob who was my boss (of sorts) came over to me on my first day and asked to see my shoes (I knew exactly where he was going LOL!), so I showed him:

"Ah leather soles, yeah good to see". He said, then glancing towards my tie he continued. "The tie is silk, right? What brand?"
As I proceeded to show him the Christian Dior label (which he didn't really approve of) of that 100% silk business tie (still a funky colour pattern), he caught sight of my wrist.
"Ah, no the watch (a diving watch) is not appropriate here, you need a watch like mine." He said, smiling like a complete chump!  He was sporting a gold Tag Heuer dress watch, like some absolute woosy flimsy looking time piece which was about ten times the cost of my SEIKO slim line wave Quartz (shark action seen) dive watch LOL! - can you remember that model??? Ok that tells you how old I am LOL! I told him Tag Heuer dive watches were gimmicks! Needless to say he beat a hasty retreat to his fishbowl office and had it in for me for the duration of my 3 odd years there LOL!

Ok I digress!

The overall case shape of the Citizen BN 0176-08E
Unlike the Citizen Ecozilla, the Citizen BN 0176-08E's case is widest at it's base and narrowest at the bezel. I protected the watch crystal with a Note Pad screen protector

The Citizen BN 0176-08E case tapers from the wrist up, not down as in the ECOZILLA, and is 1mm thinner than the ECOZILLA. The Citizen BN 0176-08E case is 48mm wide.


This in MHO is a much better design than (the 

Citizen BJ8050-08E) tapering from a narrow case back to a wider watch face, it makes the watch look like a "bucket" and "top heavy".

I'm not sure why the ECOZILLA has such a following and also the large amount of 3rd part modifications available for it. maybe it's just the retro looking design but it still looks like a bucket LOL IMHO (No offense really to all ECO ZILLA owners and lovers)



On Design


Cutaways on the minute and hour hands to allow light to get at the smaller solar panel (smaller than the ECOZILLA).


Big fluorescent orange minute hand to easily see elapsed dive minutes. Impossible to get wrong even in dim light/murky waters/darkness (with torch/flashlight of course!).





Huge fluorescent orange minute hand, easily see elapsed dive minutes. Note the "cutaway" in the minute hand (the hour hand also has a cut out section but it is hard to see in the image). This is done to allow optimal light exposure on the ECO Drive solar cell. The actual solar cell of this beast is quite small compared to the Citizen ECO ZILLA.

Huge chunky super bright luminous hour markers, easily seen for night diving or any activity in total darkness.




Where does the Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m ECO-DRIVE saturation divers watch sit within the current 2020 Professional Diving watch range?

 See details second from bottom (above table), see 300m waterproof He-Gas DIVER'S  300M. NOTE the text states, "Air tight structure against Helium gas, which basically means if you unscrew the crown to this watch whilst in the chamber/bell and Helium enters, then it can later harmlessly (the the watch) escape. However, if you do not unscrew the crown whilst in the chamber/bell then Helium gas can not enter the watches' structure. BTW I found this information on the Japanese language website for Citizen Japan and used Google translator for the English version seen above.


How does the helium escape valve work?

It simply allows the super small molecules of helium gas to escape and prevents much much larger molecules of water under pressure from entering the watch at depth.

As one well known writer (Ed ESTLOW) of watch reviews said:
"And let’s be honest. With the availability of modern dive computers, the dive watch as a vital diving tool is an anachronism"

This is of course complete Bullsh&t! and hardly "old fashioned". If you are a serious diver, regardless of how many computers you own and how good you are with dive computers, you will be wearing that dive watch. In fact I'm afraid to dive with anyone who only sports a computer. Here are my reasons: Firstly, dive computers can be damaged by being carelessly looked after, not serviced calibrated, checked against other reliable dive computers/bashed in the boat etc. Casing leaks etc. if any of this happens whilst diving with only buddies who sport dive computers, you are screwed without a watch to calculate times etc. So has this actually happened to me or am I speaking off the top of my head, speaking out of my behind? Trying to be a scare monger? YES, it has happened to me on a dive and it was during a repetitive dive, on the surface (so lucky!) where one of the other teams (there were 4 of us, 2 teams of 2, of course!) dive computer was malfunctioning! Ok, out came the tables but wait they were not wearing watches! Ok this scenario only has to happen once I reckon for one not to get caught out in the future, This was a lucky situation as we were all back at the surface, and actually no need to do the second dive (we did anyway- I think I remember a borrowed watch from the dive staff on board).

BTW I never throw myself watch arm leading into the dive boat so as to crack my watch hard against some surface in the boat, nor do I throw my watch or gear onto my arm in a dive bucket of gear to damage my watch. Get my point about wearing a dive watch?

The other place a dive watch IMHO based upon over 35 years of caving, including 2 expeditions; is during exactly that: CAVING. Especially super wet caves. Abseiling through waterfalls, swimming duck unders, mud grit, vibration, accidental banging of arms etc against gear bags or whatever, one needs to be able to tell the time underground - WHY? because you have to be able to know how long your lights are going to last, that's why; and a serious dive watch is the choice of tools for serious 24 hour plus caving expeditions.
Mr Estlow (who is not a diver) goes on to say that according to one of his diving mates, the helium escape valve only presents a liability for the dive watch failing. ABSOLUTE BS! What kind of a diver-must be a novice or armchair diver, would suggest this??? It simply doesn't make any sense at all! A one way valve is a one way valve, end of story. The helium escape valves on respected watches like the Citizen BN 0176-08E are built to a standard.

One more thing Ed Estlow goes onto say is that most "divers" in America are of the "corporate cube" type! LOL! I thought this was so funny (see my story above-ok he wasn't wearing a dive watch), who knows maybe it is the truth. In fact, I bought the model in question here, the Citizen BN 0176-08E from a guy who had never worn it near any water let alone dived with it by his own admission but was a bit of a "watch fan"! That's ok to be a collector, I guess.

Here (below) just for reference is the watches that sit above the 800M model (discontinued?) and this blogged model, the Citizen BN 0176-08E 300m watch:






A comparison between an air divers watch such as my SEIKO automatic Prospex 200m dive watch featuring a 4R36  24 jewel  automatic movement and the Citizen ECO DRVE BN 0176-08E (solar) E168 movement.

The watch caliber/movement is Quartz oscillator E168, with a stated accuracy of: ±15 sec. per month. Accuracy will be dependent upon ambient temperature fluctuations.


Both a "biggish" watches but NOT really that big.


Who says dive watches are too chunky to wear everyday. The fact is they are meant to be worn everyday. These kinds of watches ARE TOOLS


ECO DRIVE Charging hints from a guy who sees lots of sunlight and long term owner of ECO Drive watches
Charging time (see table below)
Now let's get this right for solar powered watches!

You need to put the watch into FULL SUNLIGHT if you really want to charge it properly and quickly. I mean full sunlight, like the blazing sunlight in AUSTRALIA LOL! Forget stupid LED lights etc. You'll never charge your solar watch like that, and certainly do not under any circumstances charge your solar watch under an incandescent light bulb unless you want to roast the battery! (one of the most common service issues). OR DO NOT charge the watch by leaving it on the dash of your car unless you want a well done cooked watch with a fried side order of battery! The dash can become well over 120F and over 60C! Do not place your ECO DRIVE on a rock in the sun either to charge it, the rock will cook it! Do not place it behind a window unless the back of the watch sees a lot of air movement to keep it cool! In short the safest way to charge it is upon your wrist (against your skin) and that way the watch can not go over 37C!-unless you are running a temperature or you are dead.
Late afternoon winter sun is ok and the watch will/should not get hot. You don't want it to get hot at all. If you charge it on morning full sun, Summer sunlight then u must protect the watch from getting hot. Pictured here is the Missus's Casio Protrek, showing a full charge (indicated by the small H-under the 21) and my Citizen BN 0176-08E. Note that the Casio when it was fully discharged took 15 hours of super bright Summer Sunlight (Australia) to achieve the "H" mark, meaning fully charged. The Citizen BN 0176-08E  say about 11 hours from full discharge. I got (and it's still working) over 20 years from my other ECO DRIVE but I have been careful to make sure it never displayed the 2 second low charge indicator and that the watch was always exposed to full sunlight on my wrist. if you want to get the most from your ECO DRIVE then I'd follow that regime as close as practically possible.








Where is it made???  Certainly ALL of the parts are MADE IN JAPAN by Citizen.

The caliber E168 says it's made in JAPAN, however, the place of assembly is a little bit harder to ascertain however, it doesn't really matter does it?; they are built to a standard and this is Citizen's top of the range dive watches for professional divers, whose lives depend upon zero equipment failures, as one saturation diver told me in relation to his back up gas supply: "If I'm going to need this at depth and distance to get back to the bell, I'm going to be fu%k$d in zero viz water"!

Can you hear the E186 mechanism? It's very silent!

Well my ears can just pick up a ticking sound but this could be because of my age (although my young son tells me it is almost inaudible) and of course due to the case thickness.


What are the positives about the Citizen BN 0176-08E PROMASTER 300m watch?

The bezel is very easy to grab ahold of and this makes a huge difference to ease of use. There is a reassuring "click" to be heard and felt on every second mark.


Stylish smooth case design, nothing to catch upon any materials.

Easy to read at depth


Bracelet which doesn't easily come undone at all.- This is a plus for divers.


ECO DRIVE of course no stuffing with a battery every 3 years or less. This is a Big Big Plus IMH and experienced opinion regarding ECO DRIVE watches and battery powered watches in general.

Tough metal construction
What are the negatives of the Citizen BN 0176-08E PROMASTER 300m saturation diver's watch?


The hour hand is a bit too much like the hour markers in size and the same color of course (offers little contrast), because both sport large amounts of luminous phosphor. Of course for diving the minute hand is the most important for up to 60min worth of diving. Obviously, for saturation diving where one could be out of the bell for many hours duration, this is irrelevant.

 At a quick glance at certain hand positions, it can be a bit hard to quickly read the time, especially when the minute hand covers the hour hand, one might be at first looking at the rest of the dial to see if in fact the hour hand is located there.

Citizen use some sort of non standard fixing mechanism in order to attach the bracelet. A pin (there are two of course) which must be  removed with a pin punch and special plastic headed hammer, in order to replace the band/retro fit adaptors which can take regular type watch straps. This is a procedure that shouldn't be undertaken unless you are very confident about what you are doing and or not possessing three thumbs per hand!


Here I show only for "entertainment" the following series of images from SUPPAPARTS on their guide to replacing the original watch strap.



Summary



Ok, so I can hardly wait to go diving with my newish Citizen BN0176-08E 300m PROMASTER diving watch. Totally satisfied by what I see and know about this hard to get model. Stick around for a field view of it in action although there's not too much to see re the watch but rather better look at the great fish whilst diving LOL!


BushCampingTools telling it how it is for hardcore outdoor products! (that he actually uses LOL!).